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[00:00:10] Well, welcome back, everyone. This is Penny Thomas. I’m so glad you joined us again. We were so excited about this next session of settlers calling you. I’m joined again with my great friend Beatty Carmichael. Beatty is the CEO of Master Grabber, the creator of Agent Dominator and one of the top marketing experts in the real estate field, Beatty. I’m super excited for our listeners. What do you have for us today?
[00:00:37] Well, today we’re going to do another radical face call and I’m really excited.
[00:00:42] It’s a continuation from our last Radical Faith. And for those who are new, joining in on our podcast, we do two calls under our guest sellers calling you brand and station. One type is for real estate marketing. And the other type is how to live as a Christian. So if you so today will be doing the how to live as a Christian version. So if you’re not interested in that topic, you can skip this episode. But if you didn’t have interest, enjoy it. And I encourage you to join and I think you will enjoy it because we got a really light, easy, simple topic to discuss today.
[00:01:26] Awesome. Yay! Well, I’m excited.
[00:01:30] I am, too. So do you remember what our radical faith topic was the last time we spoke?
[00:01:38] Oh, goodness.
[00:01:41] I feel like it had a little bit to do with what we’re going through seasonally as a nation with the pandemic a little bit. You’re going to have to refresh my memory and get into college and got married and start being a little busy.
[00:01:57] No, no problem. No problem. It’s I know what we talked about because I manage the notes, OK? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it does sort of tie into what’s going on today, but only from a biblical worldview. So I decided to tackle the light topic of what most people call freewill versus predestination. Right. OK. Except I don’t want to use the word predestination because I think it’s while it may be somewhat descriptive, I think it’s missing the mark of what we’re really what the scriptures really try to tell us. I mean, it doesn’t miss the mark, but it misses the mark in how we interpret it. OK. So this is a multipart series last time.
[00:02:47] You know, we’re talking about salvation and ultimately, does salvation come through man’s free will to choose God or by God, sovereign will to choose man.
[00:02:58] And what would you say? Do you recall kind of what we concluded or what you might have concluded?
[00:03:07] I concluded I know that I was kind of on the fence in the beginning, but I think if I recall, I concluded that it was it was really the Lord who’s in control.
[00:03:19] Yes, it’s the lord who’s in control, and and I think if we read through scriptures, we’re going to see that and I think we’re going to see even more today that’s going to blow your mind. So these are done in incremental stages so that the big blowing of the mind keeps on coming. But just a real quick review, especially for those who are listening. In the last session we talked about man’s free will versus a freedom to choose, OK, free will is the ability to choose without restraint, without any influence by God or anyone else. And freedom to choose is the ability to choose, but only within certain restraints. And we looked at this concept of free will in four different areas. I only want to cover three of those. We looked at it, Adam, because most people say Adam had a free will. So do I. Well, we found that Adam lost his free will when he said and became a slave of sin, and that’s what we inherited. Was that enslaved? Well, then we looked at this from man and the nature man and what God says about man. And we talked about people like Mother Teresa and Gandhi and people like that that were good people. And my understanding, I believe, is we think that God looks at those people and says, oh, those really good people, OK, but yet when we look at what God’s word says about man and I pulled this over from last session, so let me just kind of read it.
[00:04:59] This is a summary of what God says about man says that man, nature is evil, continuously unclean and unable to be clean on his own. His heart is deceitful, full of wickedness. He has no good sake’s, no good, does not seek after God is worthless, does no good, he’s evil and mind and body. And his mind cannot understand or accept any of God’s truth. And we started to realize that. Just as God cannot sin, even though God has a free will, he cannot sin because it’s not his nature to her man cannot choose God because his nature is evil continuously. So we find that there’s no real free will and that the last thing we looked at last time was slavery as it relates to free will. And you only have a free will if you’re not enslaved. But once you’re enslaved, you have a master, then you have choice. But all your choices are constrained by the Masters. Will does that make sense?
[00:06:09] Yes, absolutely.
[00:06:11] And and scriptures say that we were slaves of sin and now we’re slaves to God. And the only way as a slave, you can change your masters not by your choice, but by another master. Taking over, OK, and so all that happens outside of our ability to have any choice in the matter. And so that then brings us to the conundrum, and this is what we’re going to talk about a little bit today. But the conundrum is we know that man has to repent and basically choose Christ. But yet he has no free will to do it and how do we reconcile? All right, first off, how do we clarify what is the difference between free will and freedom to choose? And so I introduced a little theology last time. Call my lease theology. And basically, here’s what here’s how it says. If you got a dog on a leash and you take the leash off, the dog runs anywhere he wants and that’s free will. But once you put the dog on the leash, he has freedom of choice. He can run back and forth to the extent of the leash. But if you’re walking down the street and you take a left, then the dog is going to go left as well, whether he wants to or not, because it’s your will, he has a choice in going back and forth. But ultimately he follows where your will lead to. Does that make sense?
[00:07:37] Yes. Yeah, it sure does.
[00:07:39] Ok, so that kind of brings us up to where we are today. And today, I want to take it the next step and look at some very interesting scriptures, but I want to introduce an understanding of what we’re about to go through, because this is this is where we all have challenges and really understanding this. And I want to give credit to a guy named G.P.A. and he wrote a book called Evangelism in the Sovereignty of God. And he helps bring clarity to what this really difficult subject is. So let me ask a few questions as we move into this. You know, I always like to ask questions. All right. So are all men given the opportunity to repent and believe in Christ for salvation?
[00:08:32] No, they’re not. I do not think.
[00:08:35] I do not think all men are given the I think the Lord wants all men to be given that opportunity. But I’m thinking of the scripture where Jesus said, how will they know unless someone goes and tells them? And so I think there are parts of the world where they may never be told about Christ, so they may never be given the opportunity to repent.
[00:08:57] Very good. Very good. So let me ask you, are all men given the mandate that they must repent if they for salvation, if they don’t repent and they go to hell?
[00:09:09] Yes. If they are if they’ve been introduced to the gospel, yes.
[00:09:15] So if they’ve never been introduced the Gospel, then they automatically go to heaven.
[00:09:21] No, no, no, I don’t know if they haven’t been introduced to the Gospel, then, no, they’ve not been given that mandate and they do not understand the importance or significance of repentance.
[00:09:33] All right. So let me ask you, have all sinned and fall fallen short of the glory of God? Yes. And do all men go to hell because of their sin unless they repent? Yes. And did Jesus death on the cross and shedding of his blood in his resurrection, did that pave a way? For any man who repents to go to heaven, yes, so are all given an opportunity, a way to get to heaven.
[00:10:11] That’s a trick question. Yes and no. OK, I mean, yes, all people were given that opportunity because Christ died for all people, but unless they’re told they never know that that opportunity exist in Romans one, it says that we all have a conscience and that God’s law is written on our hearts and we know that we’ve done wrong.
[00:10:35] And so they know that they’ve done wrong, and when you do wrong and you’re convicted of wrong, then you have the ability to repent, do you not? Yes, you do. OK, so they may not have heard of Christ specifically, but even think about this, even Abraham did not did not had not heard of Christ, but yet righteousness was reckoned to him.
[00:11:02] That’s correct.
[00:11:03] So we use we use the term price, but really it’s a point of God’s path for salvation, which is tied to repentance. And even those who never heard of Christ in the Old Testament, they were looking forward to the path, but they knew that repentance was part of the path. Does that make sense? Yes. OK, so not trying to force an answer, but trying to clarify what I’m asking based on that. Do all had the opportunity to repent?
[00:11:36] Yes, OK.
[00:11:39] Does God have sovereign control? Over who repents and believes in Christ, in other words, is it ultimately up to God who comes to Christ or not?
[00:11:52] Hmm.
[00:11:56] I might need you to get into that one a little bit before I can answer one way or the other.
[00:12:01] Ok, let me ask you a few questions, OK?
[00:12:04] Ok. Do you thank God for your salvation? I do, yes. Why is that?
[00:12:13] Because I realized how much of a sinner I was and without him, I know that I can’t spend eternal life in heaven.
[00:12:21] Oh, so you did not save yourself? He did.
[00:12:25] That’s correct. OK. I was not capable or able to save myself. Only he can do that.
[00:12:33] Ok, do you pray for the salvation of others? I do. And what do you pray? I mean, in terms of are you, like, praying that God would soften their hearts, open their eyes and bring them to a point of tension?
[00:12:47] Yes, soften their hearts, open their spirit, allow their spirit to be awake and come to the realization of the need of a savior.
[00:12:57] Ok, why do you pray that?
[00:13:03] Because I know that they are a spiritual being and that they just need to be awakened to truth, OK, if they’re not awakened to truth.
[00:13:17] Then what happens?
[00:13:20] Then they die and live an eternal separation from God.
[00:13:25] Okay, so it sounds like to me that you actually believe in the sovereignty of God over the salvation of each individual, that it’s entirely up to him.
[00:13:37] Who comes to Christ because it’s entirely up to him to soften their hearts, open their eyes and bring them to that point of repentance?
[00:13:45] Is that true in that regard? I could see how you could say that. Yes.
[00:13:49] Ok, sure. Another way, how you could see it differently.
[00:13:56] Oh, gosh, well, um.
[00:14:02] Uh.
[00:14:03] I might need a process that for a second.
[00:14:05] All right, so let me share what’s going on, OK? Because ultimately and I want to this is what’s called mystery. And I want to read this is this is what G.P.A. Packer writes. And I just want to read this because he does a better job than I normally share what the Lord directs me on and teaches me. But G.P.A. puts it in such perfect words, I think this sums it up. So let me read this. He says there’s a longstanding controversy in the church as to whether God is really Lord in relation to human conduct and saving faith or not. The situation is not what it seems to be for it is not true that some Christians believe in divine sovereignty, while others hold to an opposite view, which is free will. It’s either divine sovereignty or it’s free will. What is true is that all Christians believe in divine sovereignty, but some are not aware that they do, and they mistakenly insist that they reject it. The root cause is a reluctance to recognize the existence of mystery. I think this is kind of what you and others are struggling, have struggled with, says people say that the Bible teaches man’s responsibility for his actions.
[00:15:25] They do not see how this is consistent with a sovereign lordship of God over those actions. They’re not content to let the two truths live side by side as they do in the scriptures. But they jump to the conclusion that in order to uphold a biblical truth of human responsibility, what we what you’ve been calling man’s free will or even what I would call a man’s choice. So they’re not content. They jump to the conclusion that in order to uphold that biblical truth, that human responsibility, that they’re bound to reject the equally biblical truth of divine sovereignty, which is God choosing. And then they try to explain away that. And by doing that, they explain away the great number of texts to teach it. And so what this is, is there’s a word called antimony and antimony is the appearance of a contradiction. And antimony exists when you have a pair of truths that stand side by side, seemingly irreconcilable, yet both are undeniable. Does that kind of sum up this challenge that you’re struggling with and answering?
[00:16:43] Ok, OK, so here’s a question. G.P.A. says, what do you do with antimony except it for what it is and learn to live with it. And that a great, great statement. Yes. Yeah, yeah. OK, so so therein lies the challenge. We thank the Lord for our salvation. We pray that he’ll open the eyes of other people, that they would come to Christ. But then on the other hand, we say, well, this st will. But we find that it can’t be man’s free will. That’s what our whole last session has talked about. And I want to blow your mind a little bit further. Can I do that? Yes, please. All right. Must man choose Christ for salvation. Does the Bible say that man must choose Christ for salvation?
[00:17:41] I do believe it does. I believe that it says that he is the way, the truth and the life that no one comes to the father except through him.
[00:17:50] But it doesn’t say it’s man’s choice. It doesn’t say that man chooses. He does it. All right. He’s the only way to heaven.
[00:17:58] Is there any passage that you can think of that says men must choose God?
[00:18:09] You’re not off the top of my head, OK?
[00:18:12] Ok, here’s here’s something real interesting. In over 30 passages, and I’m just talking about New Testament, since that’s where we’re talking, we’re focused on salvation and over 30 passengers, the Bible consistently talks about God choosing man. But nowhere in scripture does it ever say that man chooses God. Nowhere does it say that man has to choose God, and yet we hold that as an infallible truth, that we must choose Christ. And here’s where I’m going. The Bible says man has to repent. This is what Jesus preached repent for the kingdom of God is at hand, it never talks about choosing Christ. And yet even even today, we say, hey, you need to choose Christ, you need to accept Christ, really. And so it’s almost like a false doctrine. It’s pointing in the right direction. But it’s not biblically correct, because what really has to happen is here’s the truth. Repent that you may be saved, OK, but it’s not, quote unquote, choosing Christ. And so the reason I want to share that is I want to talk about what the Bible says about God choosing man. But understand, it never says that man chooses God, never, so let’s go into a really amazing lesson. You ready?
[00:19:50] I’m ready. OK, so we’re going to I’m going to give you a little Greek lesson. There’s a Greek word called Helco. H.E. Elcano is the spelling we have for it. OK, it’s a pretty significant word in the Bible, especially as it relates to what the subject matter we’re talking about and helco means to drag, such as you’re going to drag somebody or drag something without their ability to resist.
[00:20:22] Ok, it’s a forceful irresistable dragging and it appears only eight times in the New Testament. And so I like to look at each of those eight times and show you this word. Are you ready? OK, I’m ready. OK, Jon, 1810. Do all this in the E.S.P.
[00:20:44] Okay, let’s see.
[00:20:48] John, 18 versus 10, huh? OK, so let’s say. Then Simon, Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest servant and cut off his right ear.
[00:21:14] All right. Can you guess which of those words is Helco?
[00:21:21] Hmm.
[00:21:24] He drew it, so here’s what happens. There’s a sword in the sheath, he grabs it and he draws it out. That’s Helco. OK, all right, let’s get another one, John, one six, 21, six.
[00:21:48] Ok, twenty one six says he said to them, cast the net on the right side of the boat and you will find some. So they cast it and now they were not able to haul it in because of the quantity of the fish, huh?
[00:22:02] Hall is Helco is the word drak. So they’re forcefully pulling against that net. Doesn’t yet have any ability to resist.
[00:22:15] No.
[00:22:16] Ok, let’s look at John, 21 11.
[00:22:21] Ok.
[00:22:23] So Simon, Peter went aboard and hold the net assure full of large fish. One hundred and fifty three of them. And although there were so many, the net was not torn.
[00:22:35] So he went aboard and hauled the net ashore. That is the word Helco.
[00:22:40] Forceful dragging. OK, let’s look at x 16, 19. OK.
[00:22:50] X 16, verse 19 says. But when her owners saw that their hope of gain was gone, they saved Paul and Silas and drank them into the marketplace before the rulers, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged dragged.
[00:23:12] That’s Helco. Could they could they resist? No. Was it their choice? No. OK, let’s look at x 21, 30.
[00:23:24] Ok.
[00:23:30] All right, let’s see. Twenty one versus thirty says.
[00:23:36] Then all of a sudden it was stirred up and the people ran together, they seized Paul and dragged him out of the temple and at once the gates were shut.
[00:23:46] They seized Paul and dragged him out of the temple. Helco. Against his will.
[00:23:55] He has no ability to resist, he tries to, but he’s unable they it is a forceful dragging. All right, let’s look at James two six.
[00:24:09] All right, James to six says, But you have dishonored the poor man are not the rich ones, the ones who oppose you and the ones who drag you into court, drag you into court.
[00:24:24] Helco, let’s look at John, 12 32, OK?
[00:24:34] All right, John. Twelve thirty to says and I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.
[00:24:45] All right, draw now based on how we would draw all people to myself when I’m lifted up based on all the previous verses. Does that seem to be just like a a subtle hey, come to me, or does it seem to be probably a more forceful, irresistible? You will come to me irresistible? Yeah, we got a little challenge that says all people. So all people in the Greek is actually simply the word. All the word people is not in the Greek. That’s put there by translators. So we really don’t know what all means, but based on what we’re about to go through, we’re going to see real clearly, it doesn’t mean all people one translation does a better job. It says all men, Gentiles as well as Jews. OK, reminiscent of the great commission. Go make disciples of all nations. You could say almost go make disciples of all peoples. OK, so we know that in light of other scripture, it’s probably talking about that. So now with that, those are the first seven verses that use the word Helco. I now want to focus on the eighth and final verse. This is John six. John 644.
[00:26:15] Ok, John, six forty four says no one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him and I will raise him up on the last day.
[00:26:28] All right.
[00:26:30] So here we have. The word Helco that we have already seen in all of the other uses is a forceful drawing, unable to be resisted. It’s not a drawing by the will of that being drawn, but it’s being drawn by the one exerting the drawing. Does that make sense?
[00:26:52] Absolutely, yes.
[00:26:53] Ok, here’s how the amplified Bible translates it into Amplify just kind of expands on the words so says no one is able to come to me unless the father who sent me attracts and draws him and gives him the desire to come to me. So. Who draws men to Christ?
[00:27:16] The father is man able to resist drawing.
[00:27:25] No. And how do you come to that conclusion?
[00:27:30] It was a gift.
[00:27:36] Well, I mean, based on the scriptures that we read and what you said of the word Helco. People were not able to resist the Helco, resist the polling or the drilling. So that word is being used in the same way in the sentence, then that would lead me to believe that I can’t resist.
[00:27:59] Ok. Then whose choice is it that they come to Christ?
[00:28:08] Well, if that were the case, then it would be the father’s choice.
[00:28:12] So what about man’s free will?
[00:28:18] Hmm, well, I still think he has a free will, but I can see I can see now how my conundrum is getting larger.
[00:28:35] So you think he has a free will? Are you basing that on scripture or are you basing that? On. What you’ve been told are basing that on your own logic, trying to make sense of everything.
[00:28:54] Hmmm, maybe a little bit of all, and definitely the nature and character of the Lord, I feel like he’s not a forceful father. I feel like he’s very gentle, his desires that no one should perish. That’s why he sent his son. But he’s not someone who’s going to push his way into someone’s life. He wants us to want him. He wants us to be in relationship with him.
[00:29:25] All right. So here’s what I like to suggest.
[00:29:30] All of those statements she made.
[00:29:34] The majority of them are not in the Bible. God is a gentleman. He doesn’t want to force yet right here in this home, in this passage, we see. Helco. As a very forceful they drug him to court, they drug him in front of the crowd, they drug the net out of the water, he drew the sword. Every single one of those is a very forcefully event.
[00:30:02] Not I would like about God, though, this we’re talking about men and what they were doing.
[00:30:08] Right. But it’s but it’s but is the word helco. And we see that God telcos, man. No one can come to me unless the father who sent me hell cost him.
[00:30:26] And that’s not a gentleman that says, oh, come if you want, don’t come if you don’t want, it’s entirely your choice. So I’m not going to I’m not going to dispute that yet, OK? I’m not going to. But what I want is I want to show you scripture, and I would challenge you to take your reasoning behind what you just said and find scripture that backs it up. The gentleman one is always behold. I stand at the door knock and anyone who opens the door will come in. The question is, who initiates? Do they have a choice in opening the door? Was this something a little bit more we’re going to tie into all of this on today’s call, so but I just want to I want to throw out that so often we repeat what someone else has said based on man’s wisdom of trying to reconcile this issue of antimony. But until we go to the scripture and actually see what God’s word says, we could be completely wrong. And if we’re if we’re believing a lie, then we need to be cautious as where that lie may ultimately take us. So say everything I want to show is strictly from the scripture. So let’s go to another passage. Matthew, 11, 27, 11, 27.
[00:31:54] Ok. All right, Matthew, 11 Twenty says all things have been handed over to me by my father and no one knows the son except the father, and no one knows the father except the son and anyone to whom the son chooses to reveal him or chooses to reveal him.
[00:32:14] No one, by the way, the Greek word for no one means not even one, not even one man, one woman or one thing. Nobody, none. Nothing. So it’s at the singular level. This isn’t talking about men as a whole. This is talking about men individually, each individual man. And it says no one knows the father. Except the sun and anyone whom the sun chooses to reveal him, the amplified Bible expands on this a little bit more. He says no one knows the sun except the father except the sun and anyone to whom the sun deliberately wills to make him known.
[00:33:02] So. So does this indicate that man has a free will? To know God, does this indicate that before a man can know the father?
[00:33:17] That first, the sun must deliberately choose to rebuild a father to the man.
[00:33:24] Yes, OK, let me ask the latter, if a man truly knows the father because it says no one knows his son except the father, no one knows the father except the son amplified expense that says no one fully knows and accurately understands the son except the father. And no one fully knows and accurately understands the father except the son and anyone to whom the son chooses to reveal him. So if you were to fully know and accurately understand the father.
[00:34:06] Is there any way that you would not come to repentance?
[00:34:14] No.
[00:34:15] Ok. Then as it relates to Salvacion.
[00:34:22] Who is responsible? Four men coming to knowing the father and therefore coming to repentance, the Lord is OK, and what about free will?
[00:34:38] We don’t have it.
[00:34:39] Ok, boy, that was really quick last time you were you were fighting it, OK? This time you were a little not sure. All right. So let’s look at another one. Let’s look at John 665, OK?
[00:34:54] All right, let’s see, John.
[00:34:56] Six sixty five seconds and he said, this is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the father.
[00:35:09] So there’s that. No one again, no one individually. OK, so this verse indicates that unless God grants the right to come to Jesus, no person can come to Jesus. Is there any room for man’s free will?
[00:35:29] According to that scripture, now, according to the other ones that we’ve been doing, is there any room for. No, no. OK, all right. Let’s look at another one, John, 15, 16.
[00:35:41] Ok.
[00:35:44] John, 15 or 16, this is a good chapter. Let’s say you did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide so that whatever you ask the father in my name, he may give it to you.
[00:36:03] All right.
[00:36:04] To chose whom he chose.
[00:36:07] Jesus chose us. This is your speaking right now.
[00:36:12] We normally say that we need to choose Christ. But yet here. It says that. We do not choose Christ, but he chose us. So how can that how can we choose him if he says we don’t choose him?
[00:36:27] Hmm.
[00:36:30] Yeah, all right, to what did he choose us? Says, I chose you, you didn’t choose me, I wanted you to go and bear fruit.
[00:36:43] He chose us to do his work to make disciples of all nations people to him.
[00:36:52] Is that true?
[00:36:55] Put his fruit, let’s go back to the OK, we got we go go back to. Remember, we did a study on DOOL who accept Christ go to heaven, and we talked about the sower of the seed and the four soils. Do you remember what we concluded was fruit?
[00:37:16] So I’ll give you some remembrance perspective, so the last two soils, one, the seed goes into the ground, grows up with the weeds, with the thorns and the thorns, choke it out and it bore no fruit. The other seed fell in good soil. They grew up and it produced abundant fruit. So do you.
[00:37:41] So it was the heart of the person, almost like I remember that.
[00:37:46] No. OK, so let’s let’s dissect it because it’s real important. If we miss it, we misinterpret what Jesus is saying. So do you remember what Jesus said when he said this is the only only parable I believe that he interpreted for us? It’s not the only one, the only one that was in all gospels, synoptic gospels and interpreted and also not the gospels. So he and he give us gives us the interpretation of what the sadist you remember with the CETUS.
[00:38:21] The scene was Jesus, right?
[00:38:23] Right, the seat is the word of God, and we know that the word of God is Jesus because it says and John that in the beginning was the word the word was with God. The word was gone and he became flesh and blood among us. So then do you know what the soils represent?
[00:38:44] That was man or man’s heart, yeah, man’s heart. So the seed is sown into man’s heart only once soil produces fruit and that fruit is not man’s heart, that fruit is something different.
[00:39:00] The fruit is the reproduction of the seed, and if you recall, the fruit is the womb of the seed. That’s what we concluded. OK, so it has nothing the fruit has nothing to do with are we sharing the gospel? Are we doing the great commission, are we loving people, those emanate from the fruit, but that’s not what fruit is. Fruit ultimately, is Christ being formed in you?
[00:39:32] Does that make sense? Yes, yes.
[00:39:35] Ok, so then if we come back to this passage in, John, 15, 16. I’m going to read it, I’m going to rephrase it based on translating what Frida’s so you did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you.
[00:39:54] That I. Should be born within you. And that I should dwell within you. And therefore. Since I am Manu. And I bear fruit in you because it’s a seed that the bears fruit, not the soil, since I’m in you and that I bear fruit and you, therefore you will be known as my disciple.
[00:40:22] Is that would you agree that’s a fairly accurate rephrasing? OK, yeah, so then by his will. Were they a disciple of Christ by his will, did Christ? Implant himself in those people.
[00:40:41] The father.
[00:40:44] What about man’s free will?
[00:40:48] It’s looking like his free will and quite free anymore.
[00:40:53] Not only is it ain’t free anymore, it doesn’t even exist, right? Disappearing just like I can go back. God is a gentleman. He doesn’t force his will.
[00:41:06] And yet here we see.
[00:41:09] There’s no ability to resist. I chose you that I would be implanted in you and that you would have me and you and therefore you were proven to be my disciple. Doesn’t does there seem to be any choice at all for men to say, yes, I want that or no, I don’t?
[00:41:28] No.
[00:41:31] Yeah, this is real interesting when we start to look at what God actually says and get away from this conundrum, well, how can that be if we have to allow two truths to coexist? We cannot deny one truth to choose the other one. And once we start to realize man has a responsibility. A responsibility for his sense, a responsibility to repent. Or responsibility to pay the consequence of this sentence? OK, that’s the help when we look at that man has full responsibility, but yet it’s God that does the choosing. We go well, that can’t coexist. How can God have sovereign will? But man still has a responsibility in the matter and we’re getting to how that occurs. But I just want to show you.
[00:42:27] Unequivocably, that man has no sovereign will in the matter. All right, so let’s look at 13, 48. OK, is this blowing your mind yet?
[00:42:39] Yes. OK, x 13 versus forty eight.
[00:42:47] And when the gentiles had heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
[00:43:01] So the Greek for as many as means all so we can rephrases all who were appointed to eternal life believed makes sense so far. Yes. OK, now the Greek word for a pointed means to a point or to assign to a position or to determine. OK, so it’s used only eight times in scripture. And I want to show you three of those to see how it’s being used, so turn real quickly to Luke seven, eight.
[00:43:35] All right, Luke, seven, verse eight, says, For I, too, am a man, but under authority with soldiers under me and I say to one go and he goes into another come and he comes into my servant, do this and he does it.
[00:43:53] Okay, so he says, for I too am a man set under authority, appointed under authority. Someone above him appointed him to that position. All right, let’s look at 15 first to.
[00:44:10] Ok.
[00:44:13] All right, Act 15 to says and after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and the elders about this question.
[00:44:29] Ok, so here we see they were appointed as a group to go. All right, let’s look at X twenty first 10.
[00:44:43] All right, 20 verse 10 says. But Paul went down and bent over him and taking him in his arms, he said, do not be alarmed for his life is in him.
[00:44:59] Uh.
[00:45:01] Ok, is that 2010? I may have written it down. Yes, OK, what I’ve got is for that is and I said I have got the reference wrong. So what shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said to me, rise and go into Damascus. And there you will be told all that is appointed for you to do. All right. And and based on that, does it seem like there’s any leeway in what he’s been appointed to do, what God’s will for him to do and what will actually get done?
[00:45:41] No.
[00:45:42] Ok, so now let’s go back to x 13, 48. Which is where we started on here.
[00:45:50] So 13 Forty-Eight says and as many as were appointed to return life believe. So what we see is this word appointed means it’s been determined by someone else.
[00:46:06] And it says that all who were appointed to eternal life believed.
[00:46:12] So does this indicate that they believed? Because they chose of their own free will to believe or they believed because they were appointed to believe.
[00:46:27] They believe because they were appointed to believe, oh, OK.
[00:46:32] Also notice that were appointed as past tense. They had been appointed to eternal life and then later they believed. Does that surprise you?
[00:46:48] A little bit, yes. OK.
[00:46:51] I say that mine starting to blow up and some of these ideas start to burn away. How did I believe something different? You know? All right. So let’s look at Philippians one twenty nine.
[00:47:04] Okay.
[00:47:08] All right, let’s see Philippines one verse twenty nine says it is four, it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ, you should not only believe in him, but also suffer for his sake.
[00:47:21] All right. So let me rephrase it just to condense it. It has been granted to you that you should believe in him.
[00:47:30] For her who granted them to believe.
[00:47:36] Hmm. Well, doesn’t specifically say, but I would assume it’s talking about God, I would think so to.
[00:47:46] Can someone believe in Christ if it had not been first granted to them by God?
[00:47:53] No. Hmm.
[00:47:56] All right, so if it’s been granted them to believe, then do they believe out of their own free will or because of God’s will that they should believe?
[00:48:10] Godwill.
[00:48:12] Ok, so as we start to look in the scriptures, we see that this understanding of free will.
[00:48:20] Is just can’t exist. Let’s look at another one second, Timothy, two versus 25 and 26. That’s.
[00:48:36] Ok, correcting his opponents with gentleness, God may perhaps grant them repentance, leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil after being captured by him to do his will.
[00:48:53] Ok, what is repentance?
[00:48:58] It’s a turning away from something, turning away from sin.
[00:49:02] Yeah, it’s acknowledging you’ve done wrong, being sorry for it, turning away from it, OK, is repentance required to believe in Christ for salvation?
[00:49:17] Yes.
[00:49:19] Your real has been on that question. You’re not sure you’re not you’re not comfortable where this obvious line of questioning has to end up. Does man repent of his own free will or must that repentance be granted to him?
[00:49:37] Some.
[00:49:41] It has to be granted.
[00:49:43] And how do we know that? Because the Bible just said it just said decided here.
[00:49:49] It also said it previously in Philippians where it says, granted you that you should believe, but we know you can’t believe unless there’s repentance. Right. OK, so the Bible says it does man, therefore repent of his own free will.
[00:50:09] If God grants it, then yes. Free will or choice?
[00:50:18] Choice maybe is a better word choices.
[00:50:23] There you go. OK, so not free will give me my free will is unrestrained, uncontrolled, totally without any influence other than yourself, that’s OK. So if God grants repentance and repentance leaves his salvation. Then. Is it an act of man’s free will to believe or is it an act of God’s sovereign will to grant it?
[00:50:54] It’s an act of God, sovereign will to grant it.
[00:50:57] Yeah, and just in case. So those are seven verses just in case you think maybe I just handpicked the only verses there. I’m just going to read you some things. I’m not going we’re not going to turn to it. Matthew, 22 for many are called, but few are chosen, Matthew, 13, and at the Lord and not cut short the days, no human being would be safe, but for the sake of the elect whom he chose, he shortened the days John three. And they came to John and said to him, Rabbi, he was with you across the Jordan to whom you bore witness. Look, he is baptizing in all here. All are going to him. John answered. A person cannot receive even one thing unless it is given him from heaven. John, five, four, as the father raises the dad and gives them life, so also the son gives life to whom he will. John 17. This is a high priestly prayer. Since you have given him authority over all flesh to give eternal life to all whom you have given him, I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were and you gave them to me. And they have kept your word. I am praying for them.
[00:52:18] I am not praying for the world. But for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. Act two for the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off everyone and the Lord, our God calls to himself. Romans one, including you, who are called to belong to Jesus Christ, Romans nine, so then it does not depend on the man who will say or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. First Thessalonians, four, we know brothers loved by God that he has chosen you, second Thessalonians two, but we are always to give thanks to God for you brothers be loved by the Lord because God chose you as the first fruits to be saved through sanctification, by the spirit and belief in the truth. To this, he called you through our gospel so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Hebrews nine. Therefore, he is a mediator of a new covenant so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance. Romans 17. They will make war on the lamb and the lamb will conquer them. For he is the Lord of Lords and King of Kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.
[00:53:50] Do you recognize any of these forces? I do.
[00:53:55] Does it seem clear that God is the one who chooses man individually and not man individually, choosing God on his own?
[00:54:06] Yes, yeah.
[00:54:09] Then if it’s God choosing man. How can a man have a free will to choose God?
[00:54:17] And we can’t.
[00:54:22] Am I making a point here? Mm hmm. Do the scriptures make a point here, right? Yeah, yeah. All right. So here’s what’s going on. You know, when we look at all of these versus. We come to the very simple, clear, unequivocal truth. That man not only does not, but cannot have a free will to repent on his own. But it is God who has to choose him first is God who has to grant that repentance, it is God who has to choose to reveal himself to the man. For all going back to last time, all are evil continually and they seek no good, and unless God intervenes into that individual man’s life, man can never on his own free will come to God. And when God intervenes, we also see that. It’s not the man. Got men had been appointed to eternal life, and then he believed.
[00:55:37] They God drug man forcefully that Jesus says I choose, I chose you, you didn’t choose me, I chose you, that I would be in you. That is my choice and it’s my choice to be in you, to produce fruit in you that you may be seen and called as my disciple. So do you see why men cannot have free will?
[00:56:04] Yes, yeah, OK, so now we still have a problem, don’t we?
[00:56:11] You can you can you can you figure out how to articulate the problem.
[00:56:19] Well, the problem that keeps popping up in my head is that computers three, I think somewhere might be nine or 10 where he says the Lord is patient with you, wishing that no one should perish, that all should should come to repentance. So that’s my conundrum. If I know that that’s who he is. If he truly wants all of us to come to repentance, every person. Then why would he only choose certain ones to come to repentance?
[00:56:50] That’s a really great conundrum. We don’t have all the answers, but here’s what we do have. A wish and a desire is different than a decreed will. He desires none should perish, but all come to eternal life, which is why Christ died. The opportunity is given to all that’s his desire, but his creed will.
[00:57:20] It’s what we’ve been looking at. I chose you specifically, God granted you repentant specifically God, we only come to Christ if God the father draws him. All of those are very specific instances where he takes direct action and an individual’s life.
[00:57:41] I can’t reconcile. The difference between desire and decreed will, but we do know that there is a difference, there are things that you do with your family that you have that you forcefully do.
[00:57:57] That you don’t enforce somewhere else, for example, oh, you have small children and you’re in the parking lot coming out of Wal-Mart and your child is wanting to run ahead and run across the parking lot and you forcefully grab the arm and say no.
[00:58:18] The child next to you with the other mother, is it your desire?
[00:58:23] That that child be restrained and not run to the parking lot and run the risk of getting hit.
[00:58:31] Yes.
[00:58:33] But do you treat that child differently than you treat your child?
[00:58:38] Of course.
[00:58:40] Ok, so here we have the difference between a desired will. And decreed will. And actually, this tees up. Kind of where we’re going to go next session, I’ll hold off for just a moment, but I want to wrap up this section a little bit. So we had this other this other conundrum besides the difference between a desire and a decreed will, and that conundrum is human responsibility. We know that we have to repent, which appears to be a choice of our own.
[00:59:18] This is where we say God is a gentleman and he’s not going to force it upon you and he’s going to wait until you come to that point. OK, we get we we kind of come to these very nice terms. To try to indicate God is so loving, he’s not going to force anyone, but I don’t think Scripture quite says it that way or even illustrates it that way. But it’s still a conundrum because we see these scriptures we just gone through that clearly indicate God is driving the choices.
[00:59:50] And yet on the other side, we see the other very real truth, that man still has to respond. And how do we reconcile those two? So. They appear to be in conflict, those two truths, but they’re not in conflict because they are truths that God has expressed and therefore we have this concept of antimony.
[01:00:15] But I, like always have a theology to share reconcile this problem. Would you like to hear it?
[01:00:24] Yes, OK.
[01:00:26] I call it my turkey sandwich. Theology of it, a turkey sandwich. So let me set the stage. You grew up with a pet turkey named Tom-Tom. You love Tom-Tom. You sleep with Tom-Tom in your bed. You feed Tom-Tom from the table, you take a leash on Tom-Tom, walk him all through the neighborhood. And Tom-Tom was your favorite pet. And because of that, you would never eat a turkey sandwich, it would just totally against your nature.
[01:00:59] You follow me so far. Yes, OK, you love ham sandwiches, but you can’t stand you won’t even go near a turkey sandwich.
[01:01:09] So I come along and I realize that a turkey sandwich, you’re sick and you’re ailing and you’re going to die. But a turkey sandwich has the exact angry and something about the turkey meat that your body needs. And without it, it’s going to die. But if you were to eat a turkey sandwich, you would live. How can I? Gets you to eat a turkey sandwich. How can I exert my sovereign will that you eat my turkey sandwich, but it’s still become your choice to eat it? Any idea?
[01:01:51] Her.
[01:01:53] So let me give you and let me share how to do it. I’m going to say, Penny, you have to shelter in place, you cannot leave your house, I’m going to lock you in the house, I’m going to take all the food out of the house except for the turkey sandwich. So now day one goes by, you’re a little hungry, you go in the fridge and there’s only a turkey sandwich, you know, I’m not going to do that. And then day two, you get a little hungry or you go to this. There’s only the turkey. No, no, no, I’m not going to do that. But every day. Your will decreases in defiance, and before long, you’re going to eat that turkey sandwich, right? Yes. So let me ask you, what’s it my sovereign will that you eat it?
[01:02:44] Hmm, thought you were pretty determined, was it?
[01:02:54] Yeah, I was pretty determined, make sure you eat it right, OK? Yes. Was it against your original nature to want to eat it? Yes. OK. Did you ultimately make the choice to eat it yourself?
[01:03:11] I did. It was good to and it was good. And you lived OK? That’s right.
[01:03:19] So it’s not that I forced you against your will. I simply set the stage that you will began to align with mine.
[01:03:31] That’s a simple way to reconcile how can God have sovereign will over the salvation of man and yet man have ultimate responsibility, that he must perform something he must repent and believe can make sense? Yes, yes. OK, so now in the next session, let me ask you a few questions. OK, does God choose who comes to Christ?
[01:04:03] Yes, OK, well, we’re now on the same page with that one. OK, good.
[01:04:09] Does God choose all to come to Christ or does he only choose some?
[01:04:15] Oh, I might still be in a conundrum on that one, because it says that he he has desires that all would come. So no desires are different than decree, but still, I would not have to think about that.
[01:04:30] All right. So let me ask you a question. Is desire the same as Chew’s? No. All right, that Wal-Mart example, could you have chosen to grab that other lady’s child? Absolutely, yes. No one comes to comes to me except the ones that my father draws to me. I lose not a single one that you have given me, does that indicate that all whom God chooses will come to Christ? Yes, OK, so back to the question, does God choose all to come to Christ or only some only son? OK, so here’s another potential controversy. All people are given the mandate to repent their sins. Or go to hell. Is that correct?
[01:05:30] Yes, all are given the opportunity to repent and go to heaven. Is that correct?
[01:05:39] No, the opportunity is presented to them is where I’m going. Written in hearts conscience, they know they’ve done wrong.
[01:05:47] Yes, yes, OK.
[01:05:48] Ok, are all granted the ability to repent?
[01:06:05] Let me let me clarify it, if they have the ability to repent.
[01:06:10] Then repentance is because they know God. And they’re now sorry, and they want to turn, so when God grants ability to repent, when he grants them repentance. Do they all repent or do some resist God?
[01:06:29] I guess I might need a little clarification on that, because if I go back to the example we used in the very beginning, a bushman that lives in the middle of Africa that’s never heard about Jesus, the gospel never been presented to him yet. We both discussed how he he has the conscience to know I’ve done wrong. I need to feel sorry for what I’ve done so he can have the ability to ask for forgiveness.
[01:06:57] He has the opportunity, but by his nature, he’s constrained by his nature, just like you had the ability to eat that turkey sandwich.
[01:07:05] But by your nature, you would not have done it of your own. Hmm. So this is the difference, opportunity versus ability. It’s only if God grants repentance do you have the ability to repent. That’s what we find and those are some of the last verses we went through. So then here’s here’s where the controversy arises even further, if God grants repentance to some, but not all. Then does that mean that he ultimately chooses who goes to heaven and who goes to hell? Yes. Yeah, kind of in a way, done it sounds like that, so then. I can state the controversy and a question, how can a loving God choose to show favoritism by giving them salvation, but then withhold that favor from others, thereby choosing to send them to hell? That doesn’t seem fair, does it? No. So this is why so many people mistakenly believe in free will. If man has free will to choose, then God isn’t being unfair. But as soon as you take free will out and replace it with God’s sovereign will, then all of a sudden it seems unfair. Would you agree?
[01:08:34] And yet what God tells us is that man’s wisdom is folly to him. And God’s ways are different from man’s ways, and what we have to do is look at the scripture to see what God’s word says, rather than coming to conclusions from our own wisdom and therefore believing a lie. And you know the question ultimately as well, so does God randomly choose who he grants ability to repent? Does he randomly choose any meaning? I’ll take this one and you go to hell or is there something else? And that’s going to be the topic for our next session.
[01:09:13] Ok, you ready for that, I think, though, maybe I don’t know that I was quite ready for today, but let me ask you let me ask you a question is, is your understanding of God’s word and what’s going on different now than it was at the beginning of this call? Yes, for sure. OK, and if you could articulate the needle moving, what has changed and your belief of what’s going on?
[01:09:56] I guess just a clarification on the scriptures and how how to read them.
[01:10:07] Because I know a lot of the scriptures, but again, we can get into the whole that’s your interpretation of what you read, and then somebody else can have a completely different interpretation of the exact same scripture.
[01:10:21] And they can both be right. Potentially. Yeah, very.
[01:10:27] But, you know, says that. No one comes to me unless the father draws him. There’s not much wiggle room for that interpretation.
[01:10:37] Especially if you go to the words in the so you typically interpret scripture by scripture and we just went through 19 verses that all basically say the same thing God she chooses. And so to interpret it differently, you’ve got to. Interpret from something other than scripture, and therein lies the challenge, so you can’t quite say that’s my interpretation. And when you look at now, if you’re only looking at one scripture, you could maybe say yes. But when you look at all of them in totality, you start to see what those words actually mean.
[01:11:18] You start to understand that there’s a pattern. And here’s what’s really interesting, I’d like to challenge you to do this between now and our next session. Read anywhere in the Bible, New Testament, Old Testament. Now with this in light. I think you’ll see this understanding and concept hitting the scriptures all the time that you totally missed because we choose to reject scriptures. Based on, I believe, another truth so that truth can exist, but once you understand that that truth does exist, you’ll see it all over the place. And then how do you live with it, as Parker says? You accept it as true and learn to live with it, OK?
[01:12:07] All right.
[01:12:08] Well, maybe this was this was a great call. And I really do hope that, like myself, our listeners eyes were opened, if nothing else, to study the word for themselves, get to know what God’s word says and pray about it and ask him for the meaning of what they’re reading. But this is a great conversation and I look forward to our next one. Is there any final words that you have?
[01:12:34] Just be ready for the next one to have your mind really blown if you thought this was blowing your mind.
[01:12:40] Yeah. You ain’t seen nothing yet. Next one. Gosh, it’s like, oh my gosh. And it’s all from scripture. So get ready.
[01:12:52] Yep. Yes. Make sure you grab your coffee for the next one and be nice and alert and ready to focus and we’ll get into the world.
[01:13:02] Well, let me share one thing. There is one thing I like. Yes. This is deep stuff. If all you do is listen to it once and move on, you really miss it. Let me encourage you listeners out there to come back and listen to this again. But listen to it sitting down with your Bible in front of you and look up each of these passages that we go through and see for yourself, because once you see for yourself, you’ll realize how clear, explicit and specific God’s word actually is.
[01:13:36] And once you understand God’s word, truthfully, it totally changes how we see God, how you live your life for him, what you do if you believe a lie, you’ll always be off course. So that’s good. All right. That’s good.
P027
[01:13:55] Well, thank you guys so much for joining us. And we do look forward to chatting with you again on our next session. And we just bless you all. And yes, you haven’t subscribed to make sure that you subscribe to our podcast. And we will be chatting with you again very soon.
[01:14:14] All right, bye bye bye. Thanks, Beatty.
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